General health matters.

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Paul Barker
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#196 Re: General health matters.

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I’m opposite of a Vegan. I avoid PUFA’s especially trans fatty acids. Apparently they give you fatty liver, a very good friend died of fatty liver it was the 2nd worst end of life I’ve seen, (6 year old girl dying of meningitis no comparison to any deaths I’ve seen.)

Fatty liver is rising to epidemic levels with all the misguided health advice flourishing on t’internet..
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#197 Re: General health matters.

Post by jack »

Visceral fat!

Women externalise fat on their hips and boobs etc.; Men internalise fat viscerally round their organs e.g liver and kidneys.

Excess visceral fat is extremely bad news and is very difficult to measure accurately - the only accurate method is using MRI or via post-mortum. A bloke can look trim and still have excess visceral fat. Note that these machines in gyms etc that claim to measure visceral fat are crap - hugely innacurate - maybe +/-25% or worse.

You do need some internal fat, it's excess that's bad.

Best thing is to cut down on dairy. You do need some as dairy contains many essential nutrients that are difficult to replace from other sources. Calcium, for example, is only really available in quantity from dairy.
Last edited by jack on Fri Nov 05, 2021 9:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nick
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#198 Re: General health matters.

Post by Nick »

Fatty liver is rising to epidemic levels with all the misguided health advice flourishing on t’internet..
Its the fatty brains that if not created by are being exposed by social media that worry me more.
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#199 Re: General health matters.

Post by ed »

Nick wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:56 am
Its the fatty brains that if not created by are being exposed by social media that worry me more.
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andrew Ivimey
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#200 Re: General health matters.

Post by andrew Ivimey »

Uncle Frank eh! Fatty brains ... death's too good for them....
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#201 Re: General health matters.

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jack wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:47 am You do need some internal fat, it's excess that's bad.

Best thing is to cut down on dairy.
Have you got a reference for that, Nick ?
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#202 Re: General health matters.

Post by jack »

IslandPink wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 1:33 pm
jack wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:47 am You do need some internal fat, it's excess that's bad.

Best thing is to cut down on dairy.
Have you got a reference for that, Nick ?
Not to hand but it's easy to look up. When I was in Dubai I was allocated a fairly terrifying nutritionist & personal trainer, Carmen Bosmans (https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/carmen+bosmans?sort=top ) - though she looked scary, she was great. Really nice. You just never argued with her. We also had a company nutritionist as well as our personal ones and had lots of lectures about diet and fitness, plus personal training plans (I was super fit in Dubai). All the nutritionists (who also completed internationally in the CrossFit Games) were of the same mind on this.

At the start, we were all measured and every aspect of our health baselined - this included rough bodyfat content, cardio-vascular fitness, muscle and bone density etc. Every month we had check on progress, maybe some subtle dietary changes etc. It was awesome. After a few months my body fat had dropped dramatically, but I had cut pretty much all dairy and replaced the calcium intake loss with supplements - bit odd really. BTW, coffee tastes shit with oat "milk". However I was jogging happily through half-marathons and swam the 6.5km Bosphorus with not too much bother.

There's lots out there on visceral fat and the male body...
Last edited by jack on Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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#203 Re: General health matters.

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jack wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 8:47 am

Best thing is to cut down on dairy. You do need some as dairy contains many essential nutrients that are difficult to replace from other sources. Calcium, for example, is only really available in quantity from dairy.
Ordinarily I would agree with that, but after the last 7 days I'm not so sure
My parents who are mid 80s and early ninetys have a full fat, lots of dairy recommended diet.. they have taken up ballroom dancing after a 3 year break due to I'll health

And last week, lesley (the wife !) Had a fall and broke her hip.

They suspect osteoporosis and she will be having the appropriate tests and treatment in the future, but I suspect that will include lots of dairy/calcium.
She had very little dairy in her diet, drank fruit tea. and only the occasional yoghurt..

It's a long story but she's now on a replacement hip after the 1st one dislocated all to readily, she was in a sorry state after the 2nd op.
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Ray P
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#204 Re: General health matters.

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Good to hear your parents are in good form Steve and sorry to hear about Lesley.

Generalising, most people associate osteoporosis with little old ladies but its not true - it affects all of us to a greater or lesser degree.

When I fractured my hip a decade ago (fortunately screwed back together rather than replaced) I was diagnosed (via DEXA scan) with it (fairly mild fortunately) and it was attributed to sedentary work as much as mineral defficiency. apart from a reasonable amount of low-fat dairy foods, I now take a daily calcium and Vit D supplement and was advised to do load-bearing exercise - I do at least two longish (3-5miles) walks every week as well as generally not sitting around too much.

I should have had another DEXA scan by now but with previous checks the situation had improved so I'm pretty relaxed by the pandemic-induced delay.

Along with my cycling, my varied exercise and sensible diet (everything in moderation) means I'm in pretty good shape for a 64yr old.
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#205 Re: General health matters.

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Ray P wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:08 pm
Along with my cycling, my varied exercise and sensible diet (everything in moderation) means I'm in pretty good shape for a 64yr old.
Thanks Ray.
lesley walked roughly every other day up to 10 miles at a time, a bit of cycling and had what she thought was a good diet. The day before her fall she spent most of the day playing tig with our 7 year old grandaughter running around for hours. Along with around 5 miles walked .. fitness was no help

It's been a stark reminder to us how precarious the health we take for granted actually is.
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#206 Re: General health matters.

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Steve, my best wishes to Lesley for a speedy recovery. :)
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#207 Re: General health matters.

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Hope Lesley gets better soon Steve.
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#208 Re: General health matters.

Post by Ray P »

steve s wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 5:22 pm
Ray P wrote: Fri Nov 05, 2021 4:08 pm
Along with my cycling, my varied exercise and sensible diet (everything in moderation) means I'm in pretty good shape for a 64yr old.
Thanks Ray.
lesley walked roughly every other day up to 10 miles at a time, a bit of cycling and had what she thought was a good diet. The day before her fall she spent most of the day playing tig with our 7 year old grandaughter running around for hours. Along with around 5 miles walked .. fitness was no help

It's been a stark reminder to us how precarious the health we take for granted actually is.
Apologies Steve, I wasn't making a judgement on Lesley's diet or exercise regime, just reflecting on the changes I made after my accident and how they've benefited me in terms of my health now compared with how it was in 2010, but you're right, it could all change in the blink of an eye...
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#209 Re: General health matters.

Post by IslandPink »

Yes, best wishes to her for a good recovery Steve.

So, Nick, yes, i remember you talking about this diet around the time you did the swim. It worked for you but I know for sure that I couldn't follow a low dairy diet like that. I've tried it 2 or 3 times in the past and within a day or two I stop being able to sleep , and my teeth start hurting. This was despite adding in calcium supplements. I just think my tendency is towards low calcium, and it seems I also need the dairy to help it be properly absorbed.

If you search dairy and visceral fat, many more of the links are to how dairy ( and Calcium and Vit D ) are associated or have been proven to reduce visceral fat.
For example here's one paper that pops up immediately, and there are many more citations at the bottom, along similar lines.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3238453/

Bear in mind that many people concede that low fat dairy is good for you in this regard, but forget the fact that skimmed and semi-skimmed milk have a lot less vitamin D than full fat. That's for the UK of course - in the US it's fortified.
This is less important if you get your D ( which you need to ) from fish and sunshine ( or supplements ).

It doesn't ring true to me that dairy can be so linked to visceral fat, when you consider that it's been a staple of diets over about half the globe for thousands of years. Until about 60 or 70 years ago, most people in Europe and the US were pretty slim. There wasn't much skimmed or semi-skimmed milk around at that time.
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#210 Re: General health matters.

Post by ed »

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