Zero emission road vehicles.

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shane
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#331 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by shane »

andrew Ivimey wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 9:41 am Yikes!what's wrong with new MGs?
Made in China. What’s frunk in Mandarin?
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pre65
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#332 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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shane wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 11:42 am
andrew Ivimey wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 9:41 am Yikes!what's wrong with new MGs?
Made in China. What’s frunk in Mandarin?
Frunk knows. :lol:
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#333 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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What with all the other developments worldwide regarding batteries (like solid state and air/aluminium) it could be an exciting time for EV development and progress worldwide.
It already is, but I think its likely that batteries will keep advancing slowly rather than a big new thing, most of the new announcements are in part media driven and are announcements from research labs rather than ready to go now. Often the advances are not in the direction that EV's need (but still advancements, but the world seems to have forgotten we use batteries for many purposes).
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#334 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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pre65 wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 11:45 am
shane wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 11:42 am
andrew Ivimey wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 9:41 am Yikes!what's wrong with new MGs?
Made in China. What’s frunk in Mandarin?
Frunk knows. :lol:
Me neither, but it may well have a bloody big grill on the front of it.
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#335 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by ed »

Nick wrote: Sat May 15, 2021 11:54 am
What with all the other developments worldwide regarding batteries (like solid state and air/aluminium) it could be an exciting time for EV development and progress worldwide.
It already is, but I think its likely that batteries will keep advancing slowly rather than a big new thing, most of the new announcements are in part media driven and are announcements from research labs rather than ready to go now. Often the advances are not in the direction that EV's need (but still advancements, but the world seems to have forgotten we use batteries for many purposes).
something I've noticed in the last week while looking for some of the replacements for batteries that have died during lockdown(not stored correctly). There has been a marked increase in C rating, noticeable over the last 6 months. Where the normal top end was 30-40c, current top end offerings are for 60 and 80c, and I've even seens 140c. Not sure what has changed but the physical size looks to be the same as before.
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#336 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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I didn't know what the C rating of a battery meant. :?

I do now. :)

C rating is a rating of how quickly energy can be discharged from a battery. The rating is combined with a battery's capacity to determine the maximum discharge. The C rating is inversely proportional to the battery's capacity, so as you move up in capacity, you can move down in C.
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#337 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by ed »

this is not entirely relevant but I just read this when catching up on electric flight:

Energy density is usually defined in terms the number of watt-hours (Wh) you get per kilogram (kg). A current lithium-ion battery’s energy density might reach 250 Wh per kg, while the energy density of jet fuel, or kerosene, is roughly 12,000 Wh per kg.

the elctric flight people seem very optimistic for the future though.......miles to go!
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#338 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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Is the weight of the engine and supporting parts of importance as well? And I guess the efficiency of using the available power.
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#339 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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There's also the issue of thermal management in the batteries when working hard - internal losses or a cell failure at high currents can lead to... excitement?
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#340 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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jack wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 11:58 am There's also the issue of thermal management in the batteries when working hard - internal losses or a cell failure at high currents can lead to... excitement?
Extreme excrement production more like. :shock:
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#341 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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I was reading up about the new (ish) Ford USA 7.3 litre ohv "Godzilla" V8 gas (petrol) truck engine, and found the following in the comments section.

How true.

"The EU has with a stroke of a pen given the battery electric car a free pass in that it has governed it as a zero emissions vehicle, regardless of what materials it is made of, how big the battery pack is, where the materials for the battery is sourced, and how much energy is consumed during the whole production phase.
I'm not sure that doing this is going to help the environment - though it is very politically correct."
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#342 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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To quote from your quote
I'm not sure that doing this is going to help the environment
Something rather than nothing would be my answer to that question. Sounds line a version of https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
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#343 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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Fair point Nick.

The continued developments in synthetic fuels will be helpful as well.

https://www.evo.co.uk/technology/202460 ... ral-petrol
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#344 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

Post by ed »

am I being a bit slow here, but...

resource to build fossil fuel car := x
resource to run fossil fuel car:= y

resource to build electric car:= x (give or take + resource for battery)
resource to run electric car:= 0 (give or take)

isn't the comparison y vs 0 ?
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#345 Re: Zero emission road vehicles.

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Ed, I think that premise is simplistic and probably inaccurate.

And that a proportion of petrol/diesel vehicles have already been built and will stay on the road for years after the ban.
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