*** New Audio Forum - The Art of Sound ***

[Darren]

That was funny

[richardcooper2k]

that's a big shock for me nick, finding out you fall into the first category

my partner however is a 'getting things done person' rather than 'i want to understand why person', and she certainly get a lot more done than me. my solutions might (arguably) be better. but sometimes a large volume of tasks have to be done in a limited time. with this, she beats me hand down.

[Greg]

I just love this defusing tangent with the bait taken. Well done Nick!

[Marco]

Hi Greg,

As promised, here is my reply

I like to visit a site and if possible monitor every thread being posted. I know there are others like me. Consequently I want a site where members post quality educational material all the time from which I benefit.

Nothing wrong or selfish with that - it's normal. What do you term exactly as "educational material"?

On the community angle I am totally sold on Nick's approach and will not sign up to any alternative. The speed of membership growth is only of interest to the salesman. It has nothing to do with the interest of the serious enthusiast.

I also like Nick's approach, but mine is different and equally valid, particularly as I seek to have a bigger and busier site (but full of good quality material). The "salesman" doesn't make sense because I'm not making any money from people joining the Art of Sound. We don't even charge our trade members, unlike on some other forums.

Speed of membership growth is important to me because I'm enthusiastic about what I'm doing and want the forum to be a success (as per my criteria) and that means a busy forum with lots of contributions from numerous good quality members. We're already achieving that. I'm a very pro-active, focussed, highly motivated individual. I set myself targets and hit them - that's the way I am, and it's one of the reasons why I run a successful business as an Art dealer

If this pro-active 'salesman'-style approach doesn't appeal to your sensibilities then that's fine and you're perfectly entitled to decline to join our forum, but that's the way I am, and like you won't change your beliefs, neither will I.

Marco. My observation of your postings here and even more on WD leave me equating your approach to that of a pushy second hand car salesman and without doubt, I don't want to visit here or WD to be subjected to that level of sale.

What's this "sale" nonsense you keep using, Greg? I'm not 'selling' you anything other than the idea of considering joining an audio forum. Chill out and get a grip!

Here are the facts: I approached Peter on the WD forum and asked him permission to advertise my forum. He agreed and I posted a very polite and informative introduction of my forum in the area we agreed. The thread stayed there for weeks in the 'Useful Links' section and we got quite a few people joining our forum. Everything was running smoothly.

Then Mike (Shian7 - now a regular on our place, and a Moderator) posted a link to some cartridges, which caused The Art of Sound thread to move down from view on the main page. I (inappropriately, as I realise now) decided to "bump" the thread to keep it in full view. I realise now that it was impolite and inappropriate to do so, but it seemed like a good idea at the time. You live and learn.

Anyway, what you then did was 'go off on one', and post some vitriolic response which you have since deleted, and someone questioned why there were a series of deleted posts with your name on them. Shane sussed out what had happened and posted to that effect.

I then made a harmless, tongue-in-cheek remark that you had behaved a bit like a "grumpy old git", which I still feel justified in doing because I do think you overreacted. Po-faced David Counter then entered the frey to stick the boot in again as he always does with me, implying that I was 'name-calling' and being nasty. Now 'name-calling' I might have been, but it was a light-hearted tongue-in-cheek remark with no malice intended, but he felt the need to be petty and tried to make it into something that it wasn't. Frankly if you're offended by being called a "grumpy old git" then you need to get out more!! I know you weren't though because you took it in good spirit

I come to these places willing to be influenced by punters who do not have an axe to grind. If my fellow members as a result recommend a forum such as 'The Art of Sound' and I've the time I might explore it. Without doubt what I don't want is some pushy salesman who has a direct interest in the site trying to sign me up.

I'm hearing what you're saying, Greg, but perhaps you could suggest to me how else I should promote my new forum?

Bearing in mind I'm not going to be content with having 93 (or whatever) members like here after (over 2 years?) of the forum existing. Like I said to Nick before, I totally appreciate his way of doing things and the nice little community he's developed but, with respect to audio-talk, I'm looking for something much bigger and more significant and 'influential' in terms of the industry for the vast majority of audio enthusiasts. My target is to have 2000 members within the next 18 months, and then grow from there to emulate the size of membership base of Pink Fish or Hi-fi Wigwam, albeit with our own distinctive flavour.

Please tell me how I can achieve that by sitting on my backside waiting for things to happen?

I approached Nick and asked him if I could advertise my forum and he agreed, therefore I didn't do anything that was disallowed or inappropriate. There are a few people here who have now joined our forum despite perhaps also being members on WD and seeing my thread there, so it justifies my decision to mention The Art of Sound here, too. If you don't like this direct approach I'm sorry but perhaps it would be better to keep quiet and simply not join than go off on one like an old woman? [Note you're now a moaning old woman, not a grumpy old git ]

As said, Marco, your posts (two dimensional assessment I realise) seem to me to present you as the fly by night fast food paracetamol instant relief solution shallow character spivy sales person.

Hahahahahahahahaha... try not to hold back too much, eh!!

I've visited your forum and for me it is too shallow and gilded by the industry to warrant a return at present. If you can raise the quality, things might change.

Fair enough. Perhaps you might suggest how in your opinion we could "raise the quality"? I'm all ears!!

The industry is represented because we made a specific decision to give them a 'voice'. We believe that there are many people within the industry with a wide base of knowledge and expertise that is of benefit to our members, and this has proven to be the case. There are quite a few 'characters' there, too, who have provided some entertaining discussions!

Having insulted you with my impressions I'll cover that by putting up a challenge. If you are that serious about what we do here (as you have indicated on another thread) and you are not simply looking to promote your own website, put your money where your mouth is and actually turn up to Owston in April to explore what we do. There you may experience the 'serious shit' (your words not honoured here) we are into.

Greg, one thing about me when it comes to hi-fi (and business) is that I'm VERY serious. I'm in the market for a high-quality valve power amp. I'm not sure yet if I want an S.E.T or a push-pull. During the last few months I have been talking to Mo, who has been extolling the virtues of Nick's designs, and it was he who invited me to the Owston in April. I am also a friend of Ian Walker and Strummer, who Nick knows, and who joined this forum some months back and received an 'interesting' reception to say the least!

Therefore you can rest assured that I will be attending the forthcoming meeting, listening seriously to some valve amps - and doing a full report (with pictures) on The Art of Sound. I am very much looking forward to this. I have to say that whilst I am no doubt a 'salesman-type', confident and determined person - that's just the way I am and always will be - you have got slightly the wrong impression of me in other aspects

When you attend, please make sure you search me out. You never know, I might buy you a beer.

I'll look forward to that. I'm sure we'll get on just fine!

I have to go out today on business so if you reply you might not get an answer until tomorrow. There's certainly enough there for you to chew on for the moment!

Best regards,
Marco.

[richardcooper2k]

personaly i find it unhelpful when people make derogatory remarks about each others characters. i think it muddies the water, making it harder to actually understand the real matter that is being discussed. could we keep discussion to the topic rather than provoking knee jerk reactions? this isn't directed at any one person

[andrew Ivimey]

But didn't you do just that when commenting on Nick's very witty 'typing' or people's methodologies?

But that was a joke, too, you might assert.

Well so might have been Greg's pithier comments, which I rather liked.

But it is very difficult to convey intended meaning on BBs as I am sure you will agree. I get a feeling that Marco has the sensitivity of a rhino and will probably cuts a swaithe in his entrprenuerial practises with his dynamic and up&at'em attitude. But personally, and how could I speak otherwise, I haven't found anything to tempt me over to Art of Sound.

In what goes for the 'Hi-Fi industry of today' I have yet to see any innovative and excellent design or knowledge that is worth very much at all. There are of course the odd exceptions but it ain't from the likes of say, Ken Isha - sorry can't spell his name, or anything else one can find on the main street.

[pre65]

Hi-i think that in my (humble) opinion-quality is better than quantity !

I applaud anyone who has the determination to succeed,or realise ambitions but i would be interested in the "why" for Marco wanting the forum to be of a certain size,and perceived importance in the forum heirachy ?

Is it just ambition,or ego,or is there some "reward" to come at the end of the day.

I thing Peter (WD) and Nick (Audio Talk) have got the right approach,and ultimately will be much more successful in terms of content ,user satisfaction and community which it seems the vast majority of us want.

Now Marco,i will admit your antics have made me seethe more than once,but to be be objective i have visited your site and spent a while browsing ALL the different categories.To be totally honest there was almost nothing that i could find to interest me !

Others may have a different opinion,but if you want a quality forum i don't think you can "hurry up the growth",just gently assist it's development.


Philip

[Marco]

I get a feeling that Marco has the sensitivity of a rhino and will probably cuts a swaithe in his entrprenuerial practises with his dynamic and up&at'em attitude.

LOL. Sometimes, sometimes not!

But personally, and how could I speak otherwise, I haven't found anything to tempt me over to Art of Sound.

May I ask why, and what exactly you look for in an audio forum? Call it 'market research'

What I find frustrating is when people criticise something but don't offer a possible solution!

In what goes for the 'Hi-Fi industry of today' I have yet to see any innovative and excellent design or knowledge that is worth very much at all. There are of course the odd exceptions but it ain't from the likes of say, Ken Isha - sorry can't spell his name, or anything else one can find on the main street.

I largely agree, to an extent. But there is still a lot of good kit out there - providing you know where to look. My view is to embrace both old and new technology with hi-fi. I find this is the most effective way of obtaining a superb-sounding and versatile hi-fi system. 'Chucking all your eggs into the one basket', as it were, rarely in my experience produces optimum results with a wide variety of music.

Right, I'm off! I shall be back later to deal with you scoundrels

Regards,
Marco.

[richardcooper2k]

But didn't you do just that when commenting on Nick's very witty 'typing' or people's methodologies?

But that was a joke, too, you might assert.

Well so might have been Greg's pithier comments, which I rather liked.

i think productive discussion doesn't arise by chance. we all have to judge wether our comments are going to be helpful or inflammatory. and prehaps if we find someone elses comments not conducive to having open discussion we should say so in a non inflamatory way. then between us we may arrive at a consensus. or agree to differ. IMHO

[Marco]

Now Marco,i will admit your antics have made me seethe more than once,but to be be objective i have visited your site and spent a while browsing ALL the different categories.To be totally honest there was almost nothing that i could find to interest me !

Well rather than being merely unconstructive, Philip, could you explain exactly what you find interesting?

If it's just building bespoke valve amps or kits, with respect, there is somewhat more to hi-fi than that. I'm trying to cater for a broad base of topics, not merely the niche interests of a small group of hobbyists, no matter how worthy that is.

And if my (in my opinion) fairly insignificant "antics" have made you seethe, then all I can say is that you're easily seethed!

Try to lighten up and take things in your stride - it's not good for the blood pressure, old chap

Right I really must go... Byeeeeeeeeeee

Laters,
Marco.

[Nick]

Right, shall we just let Marco have the last word here, and move on with our lives?

[pre65]

Hi Marco-to please us you would have to combine all the attributes of the Audio Talk and World Design forums and then offer us each a "transfer fee" of several hundred beer vouchers !!

Seriously (for a change) you should have had a master plan when setting up your forum and having done your research you would know exactly what sort of people would be attracted.

Now i would suggest that perhaps the Audio Talk brigade,and the core members of the WD forum are just not needing,or looking for what you have to offer.

I doubt that you will ever attract such a skilled and knowledgeable bunch of blokes (and the odd lady-not that Samantha is odd !)as we have amassed between us.

So perhaps your ambitions/aspirations/expectations are not achievable ?

I was always taught,never set yourself a task that cant be achieved ! Perhaps you have.

That does not make you a bad person,but judging by the adverse comments in print and from private communications (yes we talk to each other off air as well) you are not exactly Mr Popular either.

Perhaps you just don't know when to stop ?

[Nick]

Right, shall we just let Marco have the last word here, and move on with our lives?

Ok, I will stop it then.